VLADIMIR VOLYNSKI 1890 - birthbook

Michal @, Montag, 18.03.2024, 11:41 (vor 32 Tagen)

Hello.
Where I can find lutheran book of births from 1890 from Vladimir Volynski?

I have found many years ago a genelaogical tree(I forgot where) about my greatgrandfather and his parents, so someone used a exist book.

VLADIMIR VOLYNSKI 1890 - birthbook

Peter Aifeld @, Montag, 18.03.2024, 12:08 (vor 32 Tagen) @ Michal

Hello Michal,
if you found your family in a tree somewhere, that doesn't mean that the church book still exists. It may be that the birthdate was added to the family tree not from a church book but existing documents or family bible entries used. I, for example, know the marriage date of my great grandparents from a record in our family bible. The churchbooks, where the marriage took place, do not exist anymore as well.

Greetings
Peter

VLADIMIR VOLYNSKI 1890 - birthbook

Ansgar Mantey, Montag, 18.03.2024, 13:25 (vor 32 Tagen) @ Michal

Hallo Michal

Bitte schreibe mit Vor- und Nachnamen um Verwechselungen zu vermeiden

Wladimir Wolynsk gehörte von 1862-1890 zu Kirchspiel Roshischtsche.

Wie heißt dein Urgroßvater ??

Das Kirchenbuch aus dem Jahr 1890 findest Du hier :-)

Viel Erfolg

Ansgar

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VLADIMIR VOLYNSKI 1890 - birthbook

michal @, Montag, 18.03.2024, 13:48 (vor 32 Tagen) @ Ansgar Mantey

Oh, thank you. :-)

I found there is Reinhold Schirmer from january 1890. I think 100%, he is my greatgrandfather, but how to build a connection between my grandfather?

I have scans from birthbook 1911 year, Vladimir Volynski about my grandfather, but there are no birthdates of Reinhold Schirmer and his mother.

I have a Polish grandfather's birth certificate, but no birth dates about his parents too. :-(

My grandparents were polonized Germans from Vladimir Volynskij, they changed or they were forced to change names and surnames into polish writing.

It's important for me, to find accurate informations for official matters.

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Familie SCHIRMER in Wladimir-Wolynsk

Regina Steffensen, Montag, 18.03.2024, 20:23 (vor 32 Tagen) @ michal

Hallo Michal,

bitte beachte unsere Forumregeln (denen Du ja schon zugestimmt hast) und schreibe in Zukunft Deine Postings mit Vor- und Nachnamen!

Ich weiß nicht, ob ich Dich richtig verstanden habe, aber ich versuche es einfach mal.

.. Reinhold Schirmer from january 1890. I think 100%, he is my greatgrandfather..

Reinhold SCHIRMER
*12. Januar 1890 in Wladimir (Kirchspiel Rozyszcze)
Eltern: Theodor SCHIRMER & Louise MARKWART
[KB Rozyszcze evangelisch-lutherisch, Geburten 1890, Eintrag Nr. 394]

http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/439/sygn.%2015/pages/PL_1_439_15_0050.htm

.. but how to build a connection between my grandfather? .. I have a Polish grandfather's birth certificate,..

Du hast die polnische Geburtsurkunde für Deinen Großvater, auf der sein Name und die Namen seiner Eltern stehen. Wie heißt Dein Großvater? Das hast Du in Deiner Anfrage nicht angegeben. Und die Eltern Deines Großvaters müßten Reinhold SCHIRMER und seine Ehefrau sein.

but there are no birthdates of Reinhold Schirmer and his mother.

Den Geburtseintrag von Reinhold SCHIRMER habe ich oben im Text angegeben. Reinholds Eltern Theodor SCHIRMER & Louise MARKWART haben am 29 November 1883 in Rozyszcze geheiratet:

Theodor SCHIRMER, ledig, 22 Jahre
Sohn des Tuchmachers Wilhelm SCHIRMER in Kischlin, Kreis Wladimir und dessen Ehefrau Emilie WEGWARTH;
aus Gostnin, Gouv. Warschau gebürtig
oo am 29. November 1883 in Rozyszcze
Louise MARKWART, ledig, 20 Jahre
Tochter des Fleischers Gottlieb MARKWART in Kischlin und dessen Ehefrau Anna Christine RICHERT;
aus Radom gebürtig
beide evangelisch-lutherischer Konfession.
[KB Rozyszcze ev-luth, Heiraten 1883, Nr. 383]

http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/439/sygn.%2041/pages/PL_1_439_41_0398.htm

Die Mutter von Reinhold SCHIRMER ist also ca. 1863 im Gouv. Radom geboren!

Regina

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Familie SCHIRMER in Wladimir-Wolynsk

Michał Szirmer @, Montag, 18.03.2024, 21:08 (vor 32 Tagen) @ Regina Steffensen

Sorry for my mistakes. :-( Maybe now will be ok.

My grandfather is Paul Schirmer born in 29.06.1911 in Vladimir Volynski.

His father's name was Reinhold Schirmer and mother Julianne Markwart in lutheran book from 1911

I have polish birth certificate of my grandfather where they are called Rajnold Szirmer, Julianna Markwant. No birthdates of his parents.

He and his mother was polonized Germans so I don't know when they changed name and surname spelling, to polish.

I need a document stating that these are his parents specifically. Yes this family members what you mentioned are 100% his parents.

I need it for official matters, so scans alone are not enough.

In the 1911 birth book about my grandfather, there are no birth dates of his parents.

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Familie SCHIRMER in Wladimir-Wolynsk

Irene König ⌂, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 00:03 (vor 29 Tagen) @ Michał Szirmer

In the 1911 birth book about my grandfather, there are no birth dates of his parents.

Hello Michał,

A birth certificate only contains the names of the parents, but never their dates of birth.

If I understand you correctly, you need the marriage certificate of Rajnold Szirmer and Julianna Markwart, parents of Paul. Unfortunately, the marriage register from 1910 no longer exists, so you won't get this certificate. There is only the index showing that Reinhold SCHIRMER and Juliane MARKWART married in 1910 (Vladimir Volynsk 1910, No. 105)

http://agadd2.home.net.pl/metrykalia/439/sygn.%20299/album/index.html#img=1_439_0_0_299...

http://agadd2.home.net.pl/metrykalia/439/sygn.%20300/album/index.html#img=1_439_0_0_300...

I need it for official matters, so scans alone are not enough.

We only do family research here and I can't tell you how you can have the scans officially confirmed. It's best to ask in the archives, maybe someone there can help you.

Regards, Irene

Familie SCHIRMER in Wladimir-Wolynsk

Michał Szirmer @, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 16:23 (vor 28 Tagen) @ Irene König

No, you not understood me. I need a document, book or something else where is exactly written that THIS Reinhold Schirmer from a book(born 12.01.1890) is a father of Paul Schirmer (born 29.06.1911). There could more Reinholds Schirmers which are not related to Paul.

I'm 99% sure that this Reinhold Schirmer is Paul's father, but there is some possibiliy of mistake too, because I don't know true date of birth of my greatgrandfather.

If I will get confirmation, then I must confirm that THIS Theodor Schirmer from a book is a father of Reinhold Schirmer et cetera, et cetera.

I have to prove my ancestry because I'd like to get a German citizenship due to German ancestry.

Avatar

Documents

Irene König ⌂, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 17:12 (vor 28 Tagen) @ Michał Szirmer

Well, from my point of view this would work via the complete marriage entry (Reinhold SCHIRMER oo Juliane MARKWART). The marriage entry would state Reinhold's age, where he was born and what his parents' names are. This would connect him to his birth entry in 1890. Without any doubt.

But - unfortunately the marriage record does not exist. And I can't imagine what kind of document would contain both Paul's birth and his parents' birth dates and who would have written it. It would definitely have been issued after Paul's birth. But by whom and for what reason? You'll have to find out for yourself if you think such a document should exist.

Documents

Micha Szirmer @, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 17:29 (vor 28 Tagen) @ Irene König

Volhynian Archive sent me me these scans from 1911.

https://ibb.co/pnPPxSc
https://ibb.co/jZt03FY

The last is my grandfather. His parents Reinhold Schirmer and Julianne Markwart.

Now, where I can find that this Reinhold Schirmer from this book was born 12.01.1890 I'm stucked on early stage.

My grandfather Paul was polonized German, he had later polish names spelling. His mother too. Is something like list of polonized Volhynian Germans or documents things which will give me a knowledge?

Avatar

Documents

Irene König ⌂, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 21:24 (vor 28 Tagen) @ Micha Szirmer

Is something like list of polonized Volhynian Germans or documents things which will give me a knowledge?

The polonization must not have taken place in Volhynia, but after the resettlement to Łódź. Maybe you have to look there. I don't know anything about such lists. For these questions you should look for a Polish forum. There are probably other people who have the same problem as you.

You could also ask in the forum at ahnenforschung.net.
https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/

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Theodor SCHIRMER *1860

Irene König ⌂, Freitag, 22.03.2024, 22:15 (vor 28 Tagen) @ Michał Szirmer

I don't know if you can ever prove that Theodor SCHIRMER is your great-great-grandfather, but here is some information.

In 1940, Theodor was resettled from Vladimir Wolynsk to Zgierz, as was his daughter Leokadia (sister of Reinhold SCHIRMER). In Zgierz they were naturalized as Germans in an immigration center (Einwandererzentralstelle). Some documents are online:

Theodor SCHIRMER
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS5T-D96B-F?i=2295&cat=252070

Leokadia CHRIST née SCHIRMER
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS5T-D9XS-4?i=2294&cat=252070

Leokadia married Friedrich Wilhelm KRIST on January 30, 1915 in Białystok (1915/1). At that time she was living with her brother-in-law in Białystok.
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/skan/-/skan/aeaec51ae64411dda8e3ee72597fe66ea883384...

Schirmer oo Markwart

Ansgar Mantey, Montag, 18.03.2024, 22:56 (vor 32 Tagen) @ michal
bearbeitet von Ansgar Mantey, Montag, 18.03.2024, 23:10

Hallo

in 2014 wurde die Familie in diesem posting bereits erwähnt ....

I have scans from birthbook 1911 year, Vladimir Volynski

Es gibt kein Kirchenbuch aus dem Jahr 1911 für Wladimir Wolynsk siehe KB Wladimir Wolynsk nur ein Auszug aus dem Geburtsregister siehe hier

Wie heißt Dein Großvater?

Lt Register Paul Schirmer * 1911

Louise Markwart * 1863 KB Eintrag liegt mir vor - kann ich nicht lesen :-( + vor 10 Jan 1940
Eltern: Gottlieb Markwart * ca 1836 und Anna Chritine Richert *ca 1840

Theodor SCHIRMER, ledig, 22 Jahre

* 19.OKT 1860 in Gostynin
Eltern : Friedrich Wilhelm Schirmer * 18. Nov 1834 in Gostynin + in Gostynin
Sohn von Friedrich Wilhelm SCHIRMER geboren ca. 1806 in Schoenlanke, Czarnikau, Posen, Polen oo 4. Feb 1834 in Dabie, Kolo, Poznan, Polen Karoline Schmude * 1814

und Emilie WEKWERTH * 17. Nov 1833 in Gostynin
Tochter von Johann Weckwerth * ca 1800 und Emilie Patz * ca 1807

und im Heiratsregister von von 1910 aus Wladimir Wolynsk steht:
Schirmer heiratet Markwart

MfG
Ansgar

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