I know, that Florentine KRUEGER, a sister of Anna Karoline KRUEGER, went
to Volhynia with her husband Michael LABRENZ about 1875. They lived in
Antonowka, near Berezno.

Wenn wir jetzt einen Namensindex von den Einwohnerlisten (BA Bayreuth und/oder Koblenz) hätten, könnten wir schön vergleichen. Wenn sich dies jemand zutraut, so schreibt es uns bitte.

gerhard

Hello Regina,

Thanks for the information, I will try to find the death certificate of Julianna to check if the dates coincide.

best regards
Mauricio

Hello Mauricio,

Spouse: Julianna (birth name and parents?) Norenberg, 37 => born ~ 1870/71

R: The suposed birth name of Julianna is "Braun".

In my own family-list I have the following birth record:

BRAUN, Juliane * 13. 10. 1870 Wiesiolow, Kolo, Poznan, Poland

Parents: BRAUN, Ludwig and KRUEGER, Anna Karoline

Unfortunately I have no marriage record or death reacord for Juliane BRAUN, but I know, that Florentine KRUEGER, a sister of Anna Karoline KRUEGER, went to Volhynia with her husband Michael LABRENZ about 1875. They lived in Antonowka, near Berezno.

Many greetings

Regina

Jerry:

Thanks for the information.
Very interesting portuguese description.
I will try in the mailing-list, and I would like to support this project, and be a member.

Thanks

Mauricio

Mauricio:

Most of the SGGEE website is in English with many pages in German but you can also find a brief description in Portuguese on this page http://www.sggee.org/index_por.html

Click on the flag for more details.

I agree with Gerhard. At least for now, do not order the microfilms. You do not know if your family lived in the region covered by these films. Join the mailing list first which is free and post some questions. You might then want to join the Society later which will cost some money.

For other countries, we also have similar information in Spanish at http://www.sggee.org/index_esp.html

Jerry Frank

Dear Gerhard,

The overview of microfilms from Volhynia you are know. The bureaus of >vital statistics in Poland, Ukrain and Russia have a different history. In >Poland younger datas available - see adresses and link Urzędy Stanu >Cywilnego.

Ok, i understand

What you think about these microfilms in the link above?

This adress I know. Our group wrote the German translation.

Great

I don't know how big was Wolhyinien ...

Very big. You are need a hint about the right Lutheran parish of your >families. With a name of a pastor for example on a birth or confirmation >document you can find it. If you can ask old members in your family: ask >about known place names in Volhynia, living or market places.

This is my bigger problem, my ancestor are dispersed so that lost contact, and possibly many important registers have lost too. But i'm hopeful that I will discover something yet, in Brazil.

In our forum read some Noerenberg researcher. Please use the search >function in the head of our first forum page. My own great grandmother was >Justine Noerenberg (1886-1979), daughter of Martin Noerenberg & Karoline >Felske. Martin born 1863 in Wola Jaworska, Gouvernement Radom, Russia >(today Poland), his parents Michael Norenberg & Susanna Schulz.

Very interesting. I´ve seen a common fact in Norenberg's, very are moved to Canada, for some reason. Some of my uncle-grandfathers moved to Canada too.

I hope that I will find registers.

Oh, no. Many researchers and volunteers work in this big project since any >years. I think, this steps can be helpful for you: free mailing list of >the SGGEE or better a membership in the SGGEE and you can read our actual >data collection.

If I understand correctly, you don't counsel me to order these "red" microfilms, but join the mailing list of SGGEE, or be a member. I dont know how to be a member, the page doesn't have a link to this, if you can help me, i will be gratefull
And, if I can help anybody with my researchs, anybody can count on me.

(sorry for any errors in my english)
Mauricio Norenberg

Gerhard, ich weiss das sie standesmat existiren, du weist auch das ich es weiss, aber es ist nich so einfach vie brasilein oder deutschland su urkunden bekomm, das weist du so gut vie ich auch. ok? und ich wolte diese Kerl nur helfen weil ehr eilich ist weil ehr die staadesangehörichkeit verlangen vel , Volte ihm nur seit sparen , du weist vi lange ich auch gesucht habe.und sicher hate ich mehre datan gehat .

Hello Mauricio,

... i've tryed to translate your last post, but i´ve not understood 100%.

The overview of microfilms from Volhynia you are know. The bureaus of vital statistics in Poland, Ukrain and Russia have a different history. In Poland younger datas available - see adresses and link Urzędy Stanu Cywilnego.

What you think about these microfilms in the link above?

This adress I know. Our group wrote the German translation.

I don't know how big was Wolhyinien ...

Very big. You are need a hint about the right Lutheran parish of your families. With a name of a pastor for example on a birth or confirmation document you can find it. If you can ask old members in your family: ask about known place names in Volhynia, living or market places.

In our forum read some Noerenberg researcher. Please use the search function in the head of our first forum page. My own great grandmother was Justine Noerenberg (1886-1979), daughter of Martin Noerenberg & Karoline Felske. Martin born 1863 in Wola Jaworska, Gouvernement Radom, Russia (today Poland), his parents Michael Norenberg & Susanna Schulz.

I hope that I will find registers.

Oh, no. Many researchers and volunteers work in this big project since any years. I think, this steps can be helpful for you: free mailing list of the SGGEE or better a membership in the SGGEE and you can read our actual data collection.

gerhard

I understand that you're a professional experienced researcher, and you trying to seel your budget. Thank for your budget, but I can discover it alone, ok?
The Mormons recently relased the microfilms after 1885. In 2005. It´s already avaliable. See that in this link: http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia
The new microfilms are in red.
I don't know if it will help me, but this is a very good start.
I will order these microfilms. If you want any information about these microfilms, i'm disposal.
thanks

*********************************************

Dear Gerhard,
Thanks for your help, i've tryed to translate your last post, but i´ve not understood 100%.
What you think about these microfilms in the link above? I don't know how big was Wolhyinien, but with the conviction they lived in Wolhynien, I hope that I will find registers. I will be gratefuly for anymore help.

*********************************************

Prezado Carlos,

Eu entendo que voce é um pesquisador profissional, e que voce está vendendo sua oferta. Muito obrigado pela sua oferta, mas eu posso descobrir isso sozinho, ok?
Os Mormons lançaram recentemente os microfilmes com registros após 1885. Lançaram em 2005.
Veja neste link: http://www.sggee.org/church_parishes/LutheransInVolhyniaKievPodolia
Os microfilmes novos estão em vermelho.
Eu não sei o quanto isso vai me ajudar, mas é um bom início.
Eu vou encomendar estes filmes. Qualquer informação que voce quiser deles, me coloco à disposição.
Abraço

Mauricio Nörenberg

Ich habe erklert das die filmen nur biss 1885 existiren, und das es keine
standsamt in Ucrajina, oder Russland und sogar auch Polenen gib wo unsere
eingeschriben sind

Carlos,

Die Filme aus St.Petersburg gehen bis 1885, aber es gibt inzwischen einige weitere Verfilmungen bis ca. 1900.
Vergleiche im Wiki: Filme der Mormonen

Standesämter gibt es selbstverständlich auch in der Ukraine, Russland und in Polen. Jedoch ist deren Geschichte in den einzelnen Regionen sehr unterschiedlich gewesen. Die heutigen Datenbestände dieser Ämter sind nicht mit vorhandenen Unterlagen in Brasilien und/oder Deutschland vergleichbar.
Siehe z.B. für Polen im Wiki: Briefvorlage Standesamt

gerhard

Ja Gerhard !
Ich habe erklert das die filmen nur biss 1885 existiren, und das es keine
standsamt in Ucrajina, oder Russland und sogar auch Polenen gib wo unsere
eingeschriben sind, den das ist nich so vie in Brasilien oder Deutschland mit diese damalsie deutsch-russen urkunden.
Biss Bald.

Irene oder Gerhard, erlaup mich den mensch hier portuguesich antworten.

Carlos, kein Problem, wenn Du uns den gleichen Text auch in Deutsch dazu schreibst und Dir bei der Zeichensetzung etwas Mühe gibts.

Irene oder Gerhard, erlaup mich den mensch hier portuguesich antworten.
Mauricio, os registros de 1885 em diante nao estão filmandos, e nao existem
cartório civis na Ucrania da época como aqui no Brasil, estes documentos estão em arquivos, e para conseguir estes, vc precisa ter um pesquisador profissional, sozinho por aqui vc não vai encontrar. Ucrania,Russia,Polonia , não é Brasil nem Alemanha.
valeu?

Entschuldigung an di andere mitailer den forum, aber Mauricio und ich sind in brasilien , uns seine Forschung fang jetz an, Ich meine das ich ihm schon etwas mehr erkleren kan in portuguesisch.

Sorry, i will explain better:

The birth of Heinrich was in Wolhynien at 29/december/1890. They are Evangelists.
Is it a birth document? Without birth place?

R: This is a kind of census, a questionary send tho teachers in 1920's, that i found in a institut here in Brazil. No more information I have found.

I have sort your informations:
The emmigrants/family (ages in 1908):
Johann Norenberg, 47 => born ~ 1860/61

R: Born in 1860, in the obituare certificate, in this have only the place as "Russia" and the birth year 1860.

Parents: Ferdinand & Caroline (birth name?) Norenberg

R: I unknown yet the birth name of caroline.

Spouse: Julianna (birth name and parents?) Norenberg, 37 => born ~ 1870/71

R: The suposed birth name of Julianna is "Braun".

Children:
Heinrich Reynold, 17 => born ~ 1890/91 => Birth (your document?): 29.12.1890; Place ?

R: According with the questionary. Place is Wolhyinien (too, according to the questionary. This questionary is right, because the dates and the places of the village in Brazil are suitable)

Otilia, 15 => born ~ 1892/93
Martha, 13 => born ~ 1894/95
Carl, 10 => born ~ 1897/98
Herbert, 7 => born ~ 1900/01
Alfred, 5 => born ~ 1902/03
Please try to find the correct birth datas with a village or place
name of the siblings. If you can copy a document in your family, a
name of a pastor or cantor or parish in Volhynia can help.

The big problem is that I dont have any document, like birth certificate of Johann, etc. And the obituares are incomplete. I think they have lost in the time, Johann deceased in 1927 and my alive ancestors dont know what happened with documents. But, i'm still searching for this. I'm searching for another registers too, but I must to be patient.

Thanks for all the help
Mauricio

Hello Mauricio,

The birth of Heinrich was in Wolhynien at 29/december/1890. They are Evangelists.

Is it a birth document? Without birth place?

I have sort your informations:The emmigrants/family (ages in 1908):

Johann Norenberg, 47 => born ~ 1860/61
Parents: Ferdinand & Caroline (birth name?) Norenberg

Spouse: Julianna (birth name and parents?) Norenberg, 37 => born ~ 1870/71

Children:
Heinrich Reynold, 17 => born ~ 1890/91 => Birth (your document?): 29.12.1890; Place ?
Otilia, 15 => born ~ 1892/93
Martha, 13 => born ~ 1894/95
Carl, 10 => born ~ 1897/98
Herbert, 7 => born ~ 1900/01
Alfred, 5 => born ~ 1902/03

Please try to find the correct birth datas with a village or place name of the siblings. If you can copy a document in your family, a name of a pastor or cantor or parish in Volhynia can help.

gerhard

Hello Gerhard,

Sorry, i forget to post it, the parents from Johann in the death certificate are Fernande (Ferdinand) Norenberg and Carolina(e) Norenberg.

And i´ve disovered yesterday some information about Heinrich Reynold Norenberg (son of Johann). The birth of Heinrich was in Wolhynien at 29/december/1890. They are Evangelists.

Danke

Mauricio Norenberg

Hello Mauricio,

The emmigrants: Johann Norenberg, 47 ... Julianna, 37, spouse ...

Do you have a death certificate or document from Johann or Julianna or do you know the parents from Johann?

I noticed in this link, at this site, something about an Johann
Norenberg, plase, can anyone explain about? Wiki: Ortsfamilien

It is an example about searching of families from one village. In Jadwigow lived the family Johann Noerenberg & Eva Nözel.

gerhard

Hello Mauricio I do not recognize any of the names you mentioned. My g.g. grandfather Gottfried Noerenberg(1827-aft 1890)and his wife Justine Stebner(1827-?) lived in Wandawola (close to Elisabetpol) near the western border of Volhynia. He only had two sons, Rudolf and Gottlieb. There were a few other Noerenberg families in this area.If I can find anything for you I will certainly let you know. Cheers Robert Norenberg

Sorry, i dont speak german sufficiently to post in german.

I'm searching for my ancestors, i dont know where they came exactly, but they are russian germans. My local registers dont have the exact place, only says "from Russia".

The family sailed from Bremen at october / 1908, and arrived in November 26 in Porto Alegre - RS / Brazil.

The emmigrants:

Johann Norenberg, 47
Julianna, 37, spouse
Henrich, 17
Otilia, 15
Martha, 13
Carl, 10
Herbert, 7
Alfred, 5

I noticed in this link, at this site, something about an Johann Norenberg, plase, can anyone explain about? http://wiki.wolhynien.net/

The name of the ship is Würzburg, of Norddeutscher Lloyd, Bremen, and made a Scale in Lisbon. I traced a part of the route of the ship in that voyage, in brazilians Newspapers of 1908, and the ship stoped in Lisbon after sailing to Brazil, at 26 / October, 1908.

I've searched the Odessa, and all other resources in the Internet I can, without success.
And all Bremen Passengers lists of 1908 were destroyed in II World War..

What can I do now?

Best regards, and sorry for any errors in English, it´s because my mother language is portuguese.

Thanks